380 vs 22: Pocket Pistol Shootout
Let’s face it. The defensive pistol caliber wars are over, and 9mm has won. The FBI is using 9mm now instead of .40 S&W and law enforcement agencies all over the country are following their example. It’s even more noticeable when it comes to armed self defense for American citizens, where compact 9mm pistols are almost literally flying off the shelves. Despite this, for various reasons, there is still demand for defensive pistols that are chambered in less powerful cartridges. Let’s look at two of those cartridges, and see how 380 vs 22 LR stack up against each other when used in a defensive pistol.
22 LR is one of the oldest, if not the oldest cartridge still in common use. It can trace its roots back to the 6mm Flobert cartridge, which was introduced fifteen years before the start of the Civil War. 22 LR came about later, in the mid 1880’s, and is now one of the most popular cartridges in the world. 22 LR is used by everyone from Olympic athletes who are striving for a gold medal to families in the backyards who want to enjoy a relaxing afternoon plinking at empty cans.
380 ACP isn’t quite as old as 22 LR, making its debut in the early 1900’s. However, it is the product of John Moses Browning, an absolute legend in the firearms industry. Browning is responsible for iconic designs such as the 1911 pistol, M2 .50 cal machine gun and many other popular firearms.
What are the differences between using 380 vs 22?
One of the biggest differences between 380 vs 22 is how they are used. 380 ACP ammo is, for the most part, a “unitasker.” It serves one purpose in American gun culture, and that is to work as a defensive round in a semi-automatic pistol. 380 isn’t commonly used in sporting competitions, and isn’t really thought of as a hunting round, either.
22 LR ammunition, on the other hand, is used for just about everything involving a gun. It’s tremendously popular in competitions and is also a very common hunting round for small animals. Using 22 for self defense probably shouldn’t be your first choice, however it can be done.
Another big difference with 380 vs 22 is how each round is constructed. 22 LR is a rimfire round, and 380 ACP is a centerfire cartridge. In addition to this, both the caliber (aka diameter of the bullet) of a 22 round and the size of the shell casing are significantly smaller than a 380 ACP round. A 22 LR case is just over 0.6 inches long, with a bullet diameter of 0.223 inches. A 380 ACP case, on the other hand, is just about as long (0.68 inches) but the bullet it fires is 0.355 inches in diameter. This means there is a lot more room for powder inside a 380 ACP case than a 22 LR case, resulting in a more powerful round.
Are there advantages to using 380 vs 22?
Both 380 ACP and 22 LR are not as powerful as the wildly popular 9mm round. This can work in your favor, as it means the guns that fire these lower-powered rounds have less recoil, which allows you to get in a follow up shot faster. However, it also means that both 380 and 22 have less of a chance of penetrating into a human-sized target and hitting something that can stop an attacker. The question then becomes, do the advantages of using a lower-powered round such as 380 ACP or 22 LR offset the lower penetration?
Testing These Two Cartridges
Our test pistols: The LCP2 in 380 ACP and 22 LR
To find out, we’re going to conduct two common defensive pistol drills with two very similar pistols, one chambered in 22 LR and one chambered in 380 ACP. As a control, we’ll also shoot those drills with a small 9mm pistol and compare the results.
We’ll also shoot five shots of a common defensive round from each caliber into ballistics gel, an industry-standard testing medium. Real-world experience has shown that rounds which can penetrate 12-16 inches of gel covered with four layers of heavy cloth can penetrate into a bad guy and stop the threat.
The ammunition we’ll be testing is:
Speer Gold Dot 380 ACP JHP
Speer Gold Dot 9mm JHP
Winchester Silvertip 22 LR SHP
The guns we’ll be using are:
Ruger LCP 2 in 380 ACP
Ruger LCP 2 Lite Rack in 22 LR
Sccy CPX-2 in 9mm
The Sccy obviously isn’t a 1-1 comparison with the other two guns. It is, however, a small 9mm that can be easily used as a pocket pistol, much like the two Rugers, and will serve as a baseline in our tests.
The drills we will be using are the Mozambique Drill and the Bill Drill. Both drills rely on quick, accurate shots and both acknowledge the fact that a pistol, any pistol, is not a guaranteed one-shot stop. We’ll shoot each drill from the low ready and do three runs of each drill with each gun, then average the times together.
Results
| Gun | Avg. Velocity (FPS) | Avg Muzzle Energy (ft/lbs) | Min Penetration (in) | Max Penetration (in) | Avg Penetration (in) | Bill Drill Time (secs) | Mozambique Drill Time (secs) | Gel Test Results |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Ruger LCP 2 380 | 942 | 177 | 10.5 | 12.5 | 11.22 | 3.0 | 3.0 |  |
| Ruger LCP 2 22 | 1078 | 75 | 11 | 14 | 12.58 | 2.5 | 2.3 |  |
| Sccy CPX-2 9mm | 1070 | 315 | 12.5 | 16 | 16.75 | 4.2 | 2.5 |  |
Newton’s Second Law of Motion states that force is equal to mass times acceleration. This means that a smaller bullet is going to generate less recoil when traveling at the same speed as a larger bullet. And guess what, Newton is right. The LCP 22 was an absolute joy to shoot. The gun moved hardly at all during recoil, and I could clearly see the sights as the action cycled and the gun came back on-target. Honestly, the biggest thing slowing me down in the Bill Drill wasn’t recoil, it was how fast I could pull the trigger.
The baseline gun, the Sccy CPX delivers the most power on the target. This, however, is a double edged sword, as it also moved the most during recoil and was quite uncomfortable to shoot. For example, the shot timer I used measures split times, the time in between each shot. The average split time for the Sccy during the Bill Drill runs was 0.54 seconds, while the average split for the 380 LCP was 0.45 seconds, and the 22LR LCP was 0.28 seconds.
State Of The (Pocket Pistol) Art
The tiny little 22LR LCP2 had even tinier amounts of recoil
Even though the two guns are essentially identical to look at, there were big differences between the LCP2 in 380 vs the 22 version. The sights are better on the 22 version, and it has an external safety. There are 6 rounds of 380 versus 10 rounds of 22LR. That’s important, because I’ve yet to hear a gunfight survivor say “Boy, did I ever have too much ammo with me!”
For the record, I know about the Ruger LCP Max, which holds 10 rounds of 380. It’s also wider and harder to conceal, more akin to the Sccy CPX-3 than these two guns. Is it a good defensive pistol? Yes. Is there a comparable 22LR version? Not really.
Either way, our test showed once again that 380 ACP hollow point ammunition just doesn’t have the oomph to reach the FBI minimum penetration of 12 inches into gel. Full metal jacket, or FMJ ammo, would be the way to go with this caliber.
Which Is Better?
The fact is, one of the biggest differences with 380 vs 22 is that 22LR can be used for so many different things, while 380 is a bit of a one-trick pony. 380 is, in essence, the round you use when you want something slightly less powerful than a 9mm. This seems a bit ridiculous to some of you, and I can hear you thinking, “Why would you want an underpowered version of an already underpowered cartridge?”
When it comes to self-defense though, it’s the round that penetrates and shuts off the heart, lungs or brain stem that stops the threat once and for all. If a round of 22LR can do that faster and more often than a round of 380, is there really a need to use 380 as a defensive cartridge right now?
I’ll leave you to decide that question.
No matter what anyone else claims, the 22LR, 25ACP and the 32ACP are all WORTHLESS for self defense. They all FAIL TO STOP THE LETHAL THREAT PRONTO. Using a caliber not up to the task allows a suspect time to kill you prior to the suspect dying or fleeing. The 22LR is also MUCH less reliable due to being a rimfire round, which anyone who shoots 22LR knows. Thus FUGGGGIDDDABOUDT the 22LR for self defense and instead practice your shooting skills with this round.
Stopping the threat is more dependent on shot placement than caliber. There are examples of people being shot with multiple 40 S&W or 45 ACP rounds and still killing their target.
Common “wisdom” but,
1) any gun is better than no gun.
2) a hit with a .22LR is still better than a miss with anything
3) it is easier to hit multiple rounds in a very small target with .22LR. I can put 10 rds of CCI MiniMag 40gr solids into a light switch cover from 25 ft in less than 6 seconds with my Ruger MKII (Tac-Sol upper), so I believe those same 10 rds into the FACE of an attacker WILL STOP an attack.
Right now.
First choice?
Hell no.
Would I feel unarmed with that pistol?
Hell no.
A lot can be said for shot placement. I, for one would carry a .22 with hollow points as a backup or even a primary if I were scantily clad. I have killed enough deer, bobcats, and even a mountain lion with .22 to know that a well place shot (do so through practice) will shut down a living being within 60 seconds or less. Best case scenario, yeah sure, give my Colt.45 or a 12 gauge. Worse case is nothing and having my Ruger sr22 on me is far from a worse case scenario, in MHO.
380 has killed a HELLOVA lot people in Europe as has the 32.
The LCP Max is not any bigger than the LCP II in terms of concealment. Also, Underwood ammo loaded with Lehigh penetratorsand Precision One JHP’s give far better performance than the tested .380 rounds. Check out NO Bull.com for an extensive test of .380 defense ammo.
The Max’s grip is much thicker and much longer than the II. In terms of concealment, it does make a difference as the grip is the hardest part to conceal. The II’s grip is longer and thicker than the original. The Max is more of an IWB gun than a pocket pistol like the previous 2 gens. They didn’t fit 10+ rounds in the Max by magic.
No it’s not. The grip is far thinner than my Beretta Tomcat which is a single stack and my neighbors’s LCPll is not much thicker. I have no problem concealing it but it’s easier to just pocket carry.
Beretta Tomcat? A better comparison would be the Beretta Pico.
No it’s not. The grip on the mMax is thinner than the grip on my single stack Beretta Tomcat. It isn’t even much thicker than my neighbors’s LCPll. I’ve no trouble concealing it but I find it much easier to pocket carry it in a Di Santis Super Fly. All you did was parrot what the article said
Parroting? How about I own all 3. You are parroting the BS that there is barely a difference. The Max’s grip makes it look like there’s a tumor growing out of the thigh. The difference between the Gen 2 and Max is insane. The Max looks like a full size by comparison. Trust me, I have all of them, along with P365 and G42. The original LCP can’t be beat for pocket carry, and for extra rounds carrying a tiny spare is nothing. You can fit the Max in the pocket for sure, but you’re going to look like a doofus by either: a huge bulge from wearing normal fitting pants, or looking like a doofus wearing baggy Ranger Rick cargo pants.
Fine. Live with your delusions. Comparing it to a 365 and a G42 proves you don’t limos what you’re talking about. My MC2sc is a lot bigger Han my Max and more of a comparison to you 365. You’re talking apples and oranges and if it’s so big, why did you buy it?
I can tell you aren’t a particularly bright one. Read my comment and show me where I compared it to the G42 and P365, i merely said I had them. But since you asked, the P365 and G42 also fit in the pocket, but they arent true pocket pistols, just like the Max. The grip on the Max is about the same size as the 9mm P365….too big for pocket. I can fit a can of soda in my pocket, too. Don’t know why you keep comparing these random bottom shelf pawn shop guns that noone owns except you. Why did I buy the Max? Because of liars like you spewing nonsense that it isnt bigger than its predecessors. At least Ruger is smart: trick people into thinking its a pocket pistol, they’ll get double sales when people want a real pocket pistol and buy the original LCP after getting duped.
My reading comprehension is fine. By bringing up the P365 and G42 in the discussion you intimated that you were using them in comparison. I don’t use the Pico or Nano in comparison because I own neither and they don’t interest me. In answer to your rather childish outburst, I put forth the following comparison from handgunhero.com:
LCPII vs. LCP MAX. Length both 5.17″, Height LCP Max 4.12″, LCPII 3.71″” difference 0.41″, Width LCP MAX0.97″, LCPII 0.91″ difference 0.06″, Weight both 10.6 oz. Hardly enough to mstter. I guess in your case your pockets must be as small as your mind.
Like I said, the grip makes the biggest difference in any type of concealed carry, especially pocket carry. Those numbers (except the height, which the Max is over 1/4” taller), don’t measure grip width/girth, they are usually measured at the slide. I don’t even consider the LCP II anyways because its bigger than the LCP original with the same capacity. Now look at pictures or videos of the original LCP vs the Max, pay attention to the grip. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Ruger-LCP-Max-380-Compared-to-a-Gen-1-Ruger-LCP/5-2477501/
If you’re going to carry a 9mm sized pistol….
Enough, I’ve been carrying the Max both IWB and in pocket for me maths and nobody has never even looked at me. I have a medium hand and it completely circled the grip. For the most part I carry my Mossberg MC2sc most but when I need to run out I grab the max. Here in Florida it’s always shorts and a tee and it’s never been a problem even standind next to a sheriffs deputy in the 711.
Of course, penetration through bare gel doesn’t tell the whole story. FBI protocol also includes shooting into gel through four layers of denim, to simulate a clothed assailant, since unless you’re forced to shoot the proverbial Florida Man, you probably won’t be shooting anyone who’s naked. (And if you do have to shoot someone who’s naked, he’s liable to be methed up, so you might want something a little more potent anyway.) And gel isn’t one-to-one, either; penetrating X number of inches in gel does not equal penetrating the same distance in a body. The 12-inch penetration standard was chosen because rounds known to be effective in real-life shootings penetrated 12 inches in gel. And .22LR isn’t known as a great penetrator of bone. (And it doesn’t really “bounce around” inside a skull, either.)
If you’re exceptionally recoil-sensitive, a .22 is better than a sharp stick or a good talking-to, but if you can shoot anything bigger, you should leave the .22 at home and carry the bigger caliber.